“There is theoretical sovereignty and real sovereignty and the UK hasn’t managed yet to make the distinction between the two.” Sir Ivan Rogers in Oslo last night.
This is a complete misunderstanding of the word sovereignty, which means freedom. It is like the misunderstanding between freedom and entitlements ('the right to clean water'). Freedom means freedom from the state. Sovereignty means freedom from other states.
This is a complete misunderstanding of the word sovereignty, which means freedom. It is like the misunderstanding between freedom and entitlements ('the right to clean water'). Freedom means freedom from the state. Sovereignty means freedom from other states.
Freedom means freedom from the state.
ReplyDeleteThe problem with libertarian arguments is that they lead to silliness. If the state is oppressive does that mean the police should be abolished? Should laws be abolished? Should the military be abolished?
It also ignores the fact that there are other actors apart from the state that can limit our freedoms. The Church used to limit our freedoms quite a bit. Private corporations limit our freedoms in all sorts of ways.
Without the state you have anarchy.
What you need are limits on the power of the state, and measures that will make the state more accountable and more responsive to what people actually want. Democracy is supposed to do that but it doesn't.
Again you are confusing freedom with power. Freedom is not, of course, the only good but I am making a plea to use the word freedom, in political discussions, to mean freedom from the state. Laws that make unfair dismissal illegal, for example, give a lot of protection to employees but they restrict employers' freedom and they restrict freedom of contract.
DeleteDemocracy does do these things, in a way. The problem is that the choice offered to voters is limited by the consensus that unites all the parties, which is why I love referendums. Donald Trump proved that the USA is a democracy, despite the great amount the two parties had in common before he erupted on the scene. Brexit is more ambiguous because referendums are not yet an accepted part of the British system of government despite the fact that there have been several by now starting with the one in Northern Ireland. Still Brexit showed us that Britain is not necessarily a pretend democracy. At least if the UK does exit the EU it will do so. If not, not.
DeleteLaws that make unfair dismissal illegal, for example, give a lot of protection to employees but they restrict employers' freedom and they restrict freedom of contract.
DeleteFreedom of contract is only a workable concept if both parties adhere to the terms of the contract in good faith. If an employer dismisses an employee for unfair reasons the employee should have some means of legal redress.
The freedom of one party (the employer) to act in bad faith does not seem to me to be a freedom worth defending.
Freedom is like most things. It's a good thing in moderation. It's not an absolute good.
Referendums reduce complex issues to simplistic emotional terms. The question should the UK leave the EU or remain a member was meaningless. There were in fact many different options, not just two.
DeleteReality is like that. If you asked people should the government be tougher on crime most people would say yes. When you then ask them what they mean by being tough on crime you'll find that there are dozens of radically different opinions. Should the government restrict immigration? Another meaningless question since there are so many different ways that immigration could be restricted. The devil is in the details.
Referendums can make things worse by offering people apparent simple solutions that are either false or unworkable or so vague as to be meaningless.
Freedom of contract applies whatever your motives are. I have always been opposed to all unfair dismissal laws and most employment law but I see the arguments for them. I just ask that we accept that they restrict freedom. Freedom, as you say, is not the only important thing but it should be very important and is not.
DeleteSovereignty means freedom from other states.
ReplyDeleteIn practice only great powers have sovereignty.To have freedom from other states you need control of your own economy, your own finances, your own defence, your own foreign policy.
By that measure, in today's world, the United States has sovereignty. China has a limited degree of sovereignty. Russia has a very small degree of sovereignty. Other countries have none. They exist as long as the great powers find it convenient for them to exist.
To describe countries like Australia, Mexico, Japan and the United Kingdom as sovereign nations is fanciful. They are U.S. satellites. As Britain found out in 1956.
You are not telling about sovereignty but about power.
DeleteYou are not telling about sovereignty but about power.
DeleteSovereignty without power is meaningless.
I meant to write talking. Perhaps predictive text made it telling.
DeleteYou evidently use or misuse the word sovereignty in the same way as Sir Ivan.
ReplyDelete