tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-891289711377156224.post4512461381004099003..comments2024-03-29T09:09:46.823+02:00Comments on A Political Refugee From The Global Village : The strange death of the ArmeniansUnknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger16125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-891289711377156224.post-22022821305003467172019-05-13T10:29:50.526+03:002019-05-13T10:29:50.526+03:00Thank you. Willis McBriar said the same thing.Thank you. Willis McBriar said the same thing.Political Refugee from the Global Villagehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03523068770529814044noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-891289711377156224.post-44137464546038212792019-05-13T04:18:58.999+03:002019-05-13T04:18:58.999+03:00You have a knack for the limits/-es of empire.You have a knack for the limits/-es of empire.A Vhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04712069874917480932noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-891289711377156224.post-13773699859326308732019-05-10T07:39:55.729+03:002019-05-10T07:39:55.729+03:00Thanks for liking what I wrote. The Turkish govern...Thanks for liking what I wrote. The Turkish government played the jihad card - as described in that book I love from childhood Greenmantle, which was based on fact but the CUP (The Committee of Union and Progress CUP, later the Party of Union and Progress, a.k.a. the Young Turks) were not motivated by religion. They wanted to build a strong Ottoman empire. They were modernisers, as was Kemal after 1918. The difference was that Kemal abolished the monarchy and Ottoman ascendancy and created a Turkish nation state instead of reforming the multi-national empire.<br /><br />We had no strategic or legal reasons for intervening in Rwanda but the UK Belgium and France should have done so on humanitarian grounds since we had the strength to do so. I also at the time favoured interventions in Croatia Bosnia and Kosovo though I no longer think intervening in Kosovo was necessarily a good idea and I accept that the wars of intervention in the Middle East were unjust and disastrous. I was against them though I was in two minds over Libya.<br /><br />I blame Major and Hurd for sending British UN observers who were in effect hostages to the 'Bosnian Serbs' (really Bosnian Orthodox) and this was what they were intended to be. However you know far more about Bosnia than me. What should have happened in Bosnia?<br />Political Refugee from the Global Villagehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03523068770529814044noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-891289711377156224.post-61708839886464838542019-05-09T09:18:51.569+03:002019-05-09T09:18:51.569+03:00The control of the Straits ceased to be important ...The control of the Straits ceased to be important after the Suez canal was built. The Treaty of San Stefano created a Greater Bulgaria and paradoxically Bulgaria fought against Russia and England in both world wars. The Ottoman empire prevented ethnic wars as well as being guilty of ethnic cleansing in her last years. This was her attempt to come up to date in the age of nationalism. Nicolae Iorga, the great Romanian liberal historian and quondam Prime Minister, described the Ottoman Empire as Byzantium after Byzantium. Political Refugee from the Global Villagehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03523068770529814044noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-891289711377156224.post-46763413020699588352019-05-08T13:01:32.747+03:002019-05-08T13:01:32.747+03:00I meant that it is their job to prevent future eth...I meant that it is their job to prevent future ethnic wars and holocausts in their own countries, by limiting immigration.Political Refugee from the Global Villagehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03523068770529814044noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-891289711377156224.post-90721718813691116332019-05-08T12:59:14.703+03:002019-05-08T12:59:14.703+03:00Exactly - the forced movements of peoples after 19...Exactly - the forced movements of peoples after 1945 led to many deaths and happened because the Allies at Potsdam wanted to prevent ethnic mosaics leading to more wars.<br /><br />Political Refugee from the Global Villagehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03523068770529814044noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-891289711377156224.post-65285671331484461212019-05-07T21:34:50.760+03:002019-05-07T21:34:50.760+03:00I ought to have known as they were neighbours, if ...I ought to have known as they were neighbours, if only the walls were left. A Vhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04712069874917480932noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-891289711377156224.post-32969515751795801562019-05-07T20:42:30.513+03:002019-05-07T20:42:30.513+03:00@Paul
"shortly after British Foreign Secretar...@Paul<br />"shortly after British Foreign Secretary Douglas Hurd had made a speech about the need for 'a new imperialism'"<br /><br />Like Iraq, Libya and Syria? Ha, ha, ha ….<br /><br />"With luck, politicians will now do their job and try to prevent future holocausts."<br /><br />That's not their job. Their job at home is to promote the interests and welfare of their constituents and abroad, the interests of their country. This most definitely does not include taking up the white mans burden! IMO :).<br /> David In Waleshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12442479878591522298noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-891289711377156224.post-48431772281446716072019-05-07T20:23:36.068+03:002019-05-07T20:23:36.068+03:00@Paul
Super post!
Its very well written and seems ...@Paul<br />Super post!<br />Its very well written and seems to have been inspired by your recent visit to Armenia.<br />I haven't yet followed all the links you have included but the AH quote one is very interesting.<br />It appears to be something that AH should have said but probably didn't.<br />A few asides:<br /><br />"In the nineteenth and early twentieth centuries, Turkey lost North Africa to the European powers and most of the Balkans to nationalists. Russians and others expected that one day Mass would be celebrated again in Hagia Sofia in Constantinople."<br />Of the European powers only Germany did not have designs on Turkish possessions. It was the only viable ally for Turkey.<br /><br />the Turkish participation in WWI was a jihad:<br />https://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/ottoman-empire-declares-a-holy-war<br /><br />"In my day, my country shamefully stood by and watched the Rwandan genocide which a battalion of troops could have prevented"<br />Really Paul? Who is virtue signalling now?<br />Rwanda was first a German and then a Belgian colony. What legal grounds and what strategic interest, would the British government have had for intervening? And how practically could it have done so?<br />The massacre of Tutsi started without prior warning in early April 1994 and was virtually complete within three months:<br />https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rwandan_genocide<br /><br /><br /><br />David In Waleshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12442479878591522298noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-891289711377156224.post-57483205852900132622019-05-07T18:24:33.478+03:002019-05-07T18:24:33.478+03:00The Armenian Apostolic Church is very old indeed a...The Armenian Apostolic Church is very old indeed and not Orthodox. Political Refugee from the Global Villagehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03523068770529814044noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-891289711377156224.post-8123137500654864012019-05-07T17:44:59.290+03:002019-05-07T17:44:59.290+03:00Then, the diaspora is larger than the country... &...Then, the diaspora is larger than the country... & Orthodox.<br /><br />I would be curious if life were better.A Vhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04712069874917480932noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-891289711377156224.post-30605642950981878432019-05-07T11:10:20.655+03:002019-05-07T11:10:20.655+03:00Very good. There are things in this that are new t...Very good. There are things in this that are new to me. Today's politicians almost all claim to believe in stopping genocides, but really they aren't much interested in that, as was shown by Rwanda. They like to be seen virtue-signalling, but most are quite oblivious to what makes the world dangerous and leads to civil wars. Christopher Newburyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08465673451083610063noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-891289711377156224.post-87477507450327485832019-05-07T08:49:05.140+03:002019-05-07T08:49:05.140+03:00I wrote this about the German attitude to the Arme...I wrote this about the German attitude to the Armenian genocide. http://pvewood.blogspot.com/2016/05/who-after-all-speaks-today-of.htmlPolitical Refugee from the Global Villagehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03523068770529814044noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-891289711377156224.post-43539280123189512442019-05-07T08:09:44.418+03:002019-05-07T08:09:44.418+03:00In the 1914 census there were 14 million Muslims i...In the 1914 census there were 14 million Muslims in the Ottoman empire but 2.3 million were Arabs and a million were Kurds. The number of Turks was around 11.7 million. <br /><br />Turkey was also home to between 1.6 and 2 million Armenians, around 1.5 million Greeks and around a quarter of a million Jews, including the ones in the Holy Land. <br /><br />In the Russian empire there were 1.2 million Armenians in 1897. Possibly there were 1.6 million of them by 1914.<br /><br />There were 5 million Greeks in Greece in the 1913 census.<br /><br />Greeks and Armenians in total therefore came to about ten million, while Turks came to 11.7 million. In the Turkish capital Constantinople (historically a Greek city) Greeks and Armenians outnumbered Turks.<br /><br />Today there are 80 million Turks, 10 million Greeks and 3 million Armenians. There are 15 million Turks in Istanbul (Constantinople) alone.<br /><br />I owe most of these statistics to Anatoly Karlin though I checked and revised his figures slightly.Political Refugee from the Global Villagehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03523068770529814044noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-891289711377156224.post-91505222559613681122019-05-07T02:28:34.116+03:002019-05-07T02:28:34.116+03:00Just heard that Constantinople will re-run a vote ...Just heard that Constantinople will re-run a vote on Ottoman revival. <br /><br />I am interested by the running views of Islam as a polity & the form of power it may contain; I trust the saying below is worth keeping in mind: <br /><br />https://twitter.com/MuseoAlhambra/status/1097782993299689472?s=19<br /> A Vhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04712069874917480932noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-891289711377156224.post-56776235638480310492019-05-06T21:20:56.388+03:002019-05-06T21:20:56.388+03:00It was not "just" the Armenians - other ...It was not "just" the Armenians - other groups of Christians were slaughtered by the Islamic Ottomans during the First World War - and it was not "just" a matter of attacking British ships, ships under the Ottoman flag (although manned by Germans) had also shelled Russian towns. Even in the 19th century the Ottomans had slaughtered Christian civilians - Disraeli was wrong, and Gladstone was right about the eastern question. Britain should have allowed Imperial Russia (a very different entity from Putin's Russia) to end the Ottoman Empire. Paul Markshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18376632035812989444noreply@blogger.com