Chas Freeman on Glenn Diesen's podcast yesterday says nobody can tell you any more what the Ukrainian war is about

The podcast is here 

"As I indicated, the idea in the beginning was to use Ukraine to take down Russia. Lloyd Austin and the Biden administration said the purpose of the war was to weaken and isolate Russia. It was a bit out of line to admit that, but that was the actual purpose that led to the outset of the war.

"We don't know what the war is about now. Is it about arms sales to Europeans so they can pass them on to Ukraine? Is it about supporting an ideological crusade against some mythical Russian ideological menace? Does anybody really imagine the Russians—who have bogged down in Donbas—could actually invade Western Europe? They could devastate it, yes, but they could not occupy and control it against any serious opposition, and there would be opposition.

"What is this about? Nobody can really tell you at this point. They say it's about democracy, but Ukraine is not a democracy. They say it's about Ukrainian nationalism, but Ukrainian nationalism will not accommodate the nationalism of others or the linguistic and cultural autonomy of others. They say it's about punishing the Russians for a war of aggression, but the Russians started that war because they were denied the opportunity to negotiate.

"None of this makes sense. As I said earlier, the United States, basically under the Trump administration, has now broken completely with the earlier strategy of going after the Russians through Ukraine. Europeans are still on that kick, but mostly with empty talk and no real capabilities, confronting a threat that is far more imagined than real. The only thing you can say about all this is that the big loser is Ukraine. Ukraine is being turned into a failed state with limited territory and probably limited access to the sea. It may end up as a landlocked bastion of ultra-nationalists who are the poorest and most corrupt in Europe."

"What is the future of Ukraine at this point, with or without Zelensky? I don't think anyone knows. Ukraine is a tragedy for everyone—for the Ukrainians, for the Russians, for American relations with Europe, and for statecraft generally..."

"Who in Europe, under the current leadership, who in Europe would take on the task of negotiating the 3 things that have to be negotiated? The neutral status of Ukraine, the guarantees for minority rights in Ukraine, and the broader question of European security architecture."