Sunday, 10 August 2014

Were the first Muslims Islamists?

I don't know if the Prophet Mohammed, who was certainly a warlord, was an Islamist. That is the great philosophical question of our day and only those who, unlike me, have read the Koran at length can have an opinion. However, the 'four righteous caliphs' who succeeded him presumably were. They conquered the Middle East and the Mediterranean world, until they were stopped in France at the Battle of Tours. 

The Koran compels fighting infidels and the killing of polytheists, but the Koran is full of what seem to non-Muslims contradictions. The same is true of the Bible, of course.

Everyone, including David Cameron, is nowadays an expert on Islam and is telling us that the Islamists misunderstand Islam but we kaffirs are not easily able to judge. Nor even, perhaps, are Muslim scholars who live in Christian or post-Christian countries and who read into the Koran values that obtain in these countries. 

The four righteous caliphs are known to us from Islamic history but it is not by any means clear if this is reliable or whether we really know anything about early Islamic history except a few scraps preserved in (Christian) written sources. I wrote about this here. Some doubt if Mohammed ever existed and suggest that the Arabs first conquered and then created a religion, but this seems inherently unlikely to me and there seems to be some fairly persuasive evidence that Mohammed probably did exist. Especially, though not only, the evidence from this source, a document from a previous war in Gaza.


  1. As a non-believer I do not know much about religion or the history of it since I think it is a waste of time to think or spend time on metaphysics.
    Changing cultural environment of my country and rise of religion is pushing me to waste time on this matter.
    I oppose to - “The Koran compels fighting infidels but not killing them if they do not convert - but the Koran is full of what seem to non-Muslims contradictions. The same is true of the Bible, of course.”
    In repentance, Koran says:
    “5. And when the sacred months have passed, then kill the polytheists wherever you find them and capture them and besiege them and sit in wait for them at every place of ambush. But if they should repent, establish prayer, and give zakat, let them [go] on their way. Indeed, Allah is Forgiving and Merciful.”
    Also, if the books contradict the religion, where does the religion come from, what is the basis and boundaries of the religions?
    If there is no written rule (although they claim that Koran is the only guide in Islam) there will be a chaos. Actually even if they claim that Koran is the only guide, I do not know how many Islamic branches, cults, denominations there are, all claiming that their belief is the true Islam and the book is the only guide.
    These include from ISID to I do not know what.
    Eve under the guidance of a book there is this chaos, can you imagine what would happen if they accept what you say??

    1. Thank you - I shall amend my mistaken view of Koranic teaching. Even as a non-believer I recommend the study of religion and religious history as the most powerful force in the world along with nationality. Lenin and Marx were so wrong to think economics underlay culture - it is the opposite way around and religion underlies culture, even in countries like Norway where few believe. By the way, do you have a name if only an invented one?

  2. Hey Paul it is me Tufan, somehow I forget to sign in