Coming back from my holiday the taxi driver told me at 3 a.m. about the murders of twelve people at the satirical magazine Charlie Hebdo in Paris because the magazine published a couple of years ago a cartoon of Mohamed.
This morning I see that a propos of the cartoons, someone in the Guardian has opined:
Someone on Facebook has equally predictably posted a wiki link to Anders Brevik, reminding us that it's not only Islam which commits atrocities and someone else a comment that the professionalism of the two men points to them being a false flag French SAS style attack. Sky News pointed out that these people aren't real followers of Islam.
The freedom to cause offence is sacred and we are losing it. I'd like Europe to return to freedom of speech and decriminalise offensive behaviour and hate speech. I also think we should also bring to an end immigration into Europe from outside but, even if Europe does so - and it won't - hundreds of thousands of asylum seekers will continue to pour in. 200,000 people sought asylum in Germany last year, many of them from Syria.
But life is very complicated. When I saw the cartoons in Charlie Hebdo I saw they were not innocent jeux d'esprit. The cartoons below are the ones that led to this murder and I have to say that they are very wrong. So I found myself partly changing my mind.

This is a weak joke about copies of the Koran not being able to stop bullets. It uses the word 'merde' which means excrement to describe the Koran, though in French 'merde' is used so much that it has lost its force and means something like 'crap', not 's-t'.
These things are wrong, even though I do not think that they should be illegal in a Christian country or in a secular country like France. That they should never have been published does not in any way ameliorate or justify murder but it does, unfortunately, explain it. I realise that this is not a very satisfactory conclusion.
There is something infuriating about advocates of immigration and multiculturalism expressing outrage about these killings - the same people who extol the merits of diversity. They combine great dislike of conservative religion with an inordinate love for Islam, along with love for feminism and homosexual rights. Instead of getting angry with the murderers I find I am angry with Angela Merkel, Francois Hollande and David Cameron. And yet for people who want Europe to become increasingly multicultural, increasingly an ethnic and religious mosaic, Islam is the threat to their project.
This is another Charlie Hebdo cover from the past.
The caption reads:
But I wonder whether Muhammad would have disowned the murders or not. I am not sure. I do think he was probably an Islamist. I say 'probably' simply because we know nothing for sure about Muhammad - even his very existence, though supported by evidence from Christian sources, is not certain. I suspect that the murderers may have been good Muslims in killing the journalists, though who am I to judge?
I have recently acquired a Muslim Facebook friend who posted this.
One of my most intelligent Facebook friends, a libertarian and republican atheist, made this comment with which I tend to agree:
Actually I am not sure what I think about gun control laws but I get cross with all those annoying people who read the Independent and who bore on about the subject with much moral superiority. They may be right or wrong but no-one in the UK seems to care anymore about freedom. They seem to now after these murders in Paris but they don't really. They still want hate speech to be illegal (and probably rude remarks about homosexual marriage too) - and all the rest of the curbs on freedom.
We must demand free speech but Islam does not brook offending God and never will. Islam is a warlike creed. We are at the limits of the liberal imagination. They were always fairly narrow.
This morning I see that a propos of the cartoons, someone in the Guardian has opined:
"Observant Muslims anywhere would be angered by such images... Islam is not unique. Judaism forbids the use of “graven images”So far, so laughably predictable, I thought.
Someone on Facebook has equally predictably posted a wiki link to Anders Brevik, reminding us that it's not only Islam which commits atrocities and someone else a comment that the professionalism of the two men points to them being a false flag French SAS style attack. Sky News pointed out that these people aren't real followers of Islam.
The freedom to cause offence is sacred and we are losing it. I'd like Europe to return to freedom of speech and decriminalise offensive behaviour and hate speech. I also think we should also bring to an end immigration into Europe from outside but, even if Europe does so - and it won't - hundreds of thousands of asylum seekers will continue to pour in. 200,000 people sought asylum in Germany last year, many of them from Syria.
But life is very complicated. When I saw the cartoons in Charlie Hebdo I saw they were not innocent jeux d'esprit. The cartoons below are the ones that led to this murder and I have to say that they are very wrong. So I found myself partly changing my mind.

This is a weak joke about copies of the Koran not being able to stop bullets. It uses the word 'merde' which means excrement to describe the Koran, though in French 'merde' is used so much that it has lost its force and means something like 'crap', not 's-t'.
These things are wrong, even though I do not think that they should be illegal in a Christian country or in a secular country like France. That they should never have been published does not in any way ameliorate or justify murder but it does, unfortunately, explain it. I realise that this is not a very satisfactory conclusion.
This is another Charlie Hebdo cover from the past.

The caption reads:
Muhammad Overtaken By Fundamentalists: "It's a drag being loved by a-holes."
But I wonder whether Muhammad would have disowned the murders or not. I am not sure. I do think he was probably an Islamist. I say 'probably' simply because we know nothing for sure about Muhammad - even his very existence, though supported by evidence from Christian sources, is not certain. I suspect that the murderers may have been good Muslims in killing the journalists, though who am I to judge?
I have recently acquired a Muslim Facebook friend who posted this.
So many toss pots will come forth and say "not in my name" -
Most Muslims will agree - inflicting punishment is the job of the state - and will not agree with the shootings /
But please don't ask me to feel sorry for those that insulted my Prophet - pbuh
And for those that pray for them - May the curse of the Prophet be upon you -/
I suspect he speaks for many, perhaps most Muslims.
One of my most intelligent Facebook friends, a libertarian and republican atheist, made this comment with which I tend to agree:
Donald Trump has been reported as having said in a "Twitter rant" that if the Charlie Hebdo journalists had been armed they'd have had a chance. This is of course true, and it's the only way they could have had a chance. It's the only way massacres could be prevented in shopping centres and the like, and it's only a matter of time before one of these happens.The choice might be between a police state, an armed society, or a society that suffers regular random large scale massacres.
Actually I am not sure what I think about gun control laws but I get cross with all those annoying people who read the Independent and who bore on about the subject with much moral superiority. They may be right or wrong but no-one in the UK seems to care anymore about freedom. They seem to now after these murders in Paris but they don't really. They still want hate speech to be illegal (and probably rude remarks about homosexual marriage too) - and all the rest of the curbs on freedom.
We must demand free speech but Islam does not brook offending God and never will. Islam is a warlike creed. We are at the limits of the liberal imagination. They were always fairly narrow.
Things were easier, perhaps, when the law of blasphemy protected the Christian God from insult, as it did in England and Wales until Tony Blair's government abolished the offence. There is no going back to that. I wish it were just France that has a problem (and things are worse in France than elsewhere) but Western Europe has the problem - because of a small minority of Muslims.
I don't think this problem has a solution.
If you know of one please tell me.
I don't think this problem has a solution.
If you know of one please tell me.
I actually find the cartoons quite funny. The poor bugger thought his holy book would protect him but in the end it really is just shite
ReplyDeleteI wish the ragheads would take out these conspiracy theorists spouting false flag nonsense instead of brave cartoonists
ReplyDeletePaul, bringing up the point that Judaism forbids 'graven images' in this context and any other is meaningless. No Jew killed anybody for simmilar reasons. And being angered (or consider them of bad taste) by such images and one may be Muslim or not to react in such a way but implying that this gives legitimacy to murder is like saying that Yazzidis angered the Muslims for having the wrong religion.
ReplyDeleteThe idea of middle-aged French cartoonists pulling out Ole Betsy to defend themselves against a surprise attack by cold-blooded trained killers is the kind of macho fantasy that Donald Trump would cook up.
ReplyDeleteAgree with you on some other points though. I think Mohammed would have been behind this massacre all the way.
Good Lord a measure of agreement from someone who likened me to Lord Hawhaw.
DeleteIndeed - it's as absurd as suggesting an elderly Canadian in fancy dress might shoot dead a gunman in the Parliament buildings. Let's go the whole hog and fantasise, in a macho way, about him throwing himself to the floor and firing while rolling.
DeletePeter thank you for pointing out to me that Trump was right. How the Independent readers sneered at him. How much Europeans, Western Europeans but Eastern Europeans too, love the state.
DeleteInteresting how folk think this long dead/made up Mohammed chap, would have any thoughts on yesterdays events.
ReplyDeleteYou want to end immigration from outside Europe?
ReplyDeleteSo will you stop immigrants from the USA and Australia coming to Europe?
I am not sure what exactly immigration means. I am talking about permanent settlement and I should certainly be happy for anyone with a British great-grandparent to be admitted.
DeleteWell I assume you mean permanent settlement. Nobody from outside Europe seems a bit indiscriminate.
DeleteNo more wealthy Arabs?
No more Japanese or Korean employers of motor corporations?
No more Filipino nurses?
No more British men marrying Thai wives?
Very rich people are welcome in limited numbers but the details can be decided when we have agreed on the principle.
DeleteBut I think the Gulf states have a good policy of having foreigners work there and then go home without citizenship or other rights.
DeleteNo, they don't. 21st century indentured labour builds the onanistic towers of mammon worship.
DeleteI'm also confused about this part of your post: so you're against immigration to Europe?
DeleteAn interesting perspective from someone who's an immigrant himself. What determined you exactly to move away from your own country and into another? Perhaps the possibility of choice? of living in a place that you found better or more interesting at a particular time in your life? the chance for a different path of self-development? Why should others not be permitted to do the same?
And why in particular those who have life and death reasons to relocate, unlike people such as yourself who've made a luxury choice and were in no danger when choosing to move.
I find this type of argument, coming from expats (and it can be heard and read so often) puzzling. And it seems to me - correct me if I'm wrong - that it doesn't come from some sense of rational concern, but rather from a false sense of entitlement and superiority.
Best,
Anca
I am an immigrant and love being one but two points. First, free movement to find work within the EU is part of the very kernel of the EU idea - it is not going to change while the EU exists. I am talking about immigration into Europe.
DeleteSecond, it's about numbers. The Daily Telegraph said last month
"According to recent research one in three people in Britain will be from an ethnic minority within a generation with non-white people will making up between 20 and 30 per cent of the population by 2050. The current share is around 14 per cent."
This remarkable transformation is why Great Britain should stop allowing much permanent settlement by or naturalisation of immigrants from outside Europe. This is a view shared by many or most immigrants to the UK themselves, according to polls and according to most of the ones I have spoken to.
However, asylum seekers alone will lead to a Europe where indigenous people are a minority.
Every man and his dog is banging on about freedom of speech but when was the last time nigger was printed in the media or said on TV? Why have the BBC censored the words 'free Palestine' from the radio and shut down live discussions about the subject? I'm all for freedom of speech but will it be no holds barred? Or do we all remain cautious of printing or saying things which cause offence?
ReplyDeleteIts funny to see liberals and the those on the neocon/Retard Right suddenly pretend they are pro free speech when leftie cartoonists are the victims. Where were they when people like Nick Griffin or Robert Faurisson were being beaten up or arrested? One of the dead cartoonists was literally a member of the Communist party and Hebdo repeatedly attacked Fronte Nationale for opposing the immigration that led to their deaths. They picked on an enemy that fought back. Good riddance!!
ReplyDeleteWhat a knuckledragging anon...petit pénis petit cerveau.
DeleteWho are the REAL followers of Islam? There is one book and I don't know how many thousands of interpretations from ISIS to Al Kaide to HAMAS to the imam of the mosque in our corner, to the taxi driver in Kadiköy ??? One of the leading imams of Saudi said that you are allowed to screw the dead body of your wife within 2 hours after death, another one said that if you say the world is round you are against Allah. Tell me who is the real follower ??? Since it is so open ended question it is a very good fit for manipulations, exploitations, provocations, a good tool for social engineering. And everybody id using it from US to Saudi, to the imam of the corner mosque or to the cab driver. Religion is the opium of masses.
ReplyDeleteTufan
As long as you don t say anything about jews, homos,putin,blacks...free speech is fine.lol
ReplyDeletePutin?
Deleteto a lesser extent.
Deletelaur
DeleteYou are not allowed to support Putin, you mean? Some people do. Can't see why you drag him in.
Deletewell if i said jews and homos i would look mad...no?
DeletePaul,
ReplyDeletePrivate Eye often publishes front covers I find objectionable.
I don't kill anyone or encourage someone else to kill, for that reason.
I don't buy that issue.
Interesting explanation of the problem we face with regard to unreformed Islam here:
http://www.petreanu.ro/2015/01/08/da-este-islamul/
Maybe you could forward this link to your Facebook muslim "friend".
Thank you. I do not think he speaks Romanian, though.
Delete